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纪烈武:“苏家屯”谎言不可思议(中英对照)

发布日期:2006年10月12日   文章来源:凯风网   作者:谈德音
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  7年前,还是36岁的时候,他已是(香港)中国有色金属工业贸易集团、东方铜业有限公司董事、总经理;驻香港已达10年。
  7年后,仍在监狱的他依然自豪地说,“当时,我在(贸易投资、期货等)领域里面做得相当不错。”那时的他,在国际、国内同行中均获得较高的认可和尊重。
  然而,法轮功使他逐渐丧失理性。1999年,他因犯组织利用邪教组织破坏法律实施、组织利用邪教组织致人死亡、非法获取国家秘密罪,被判处有期徒刑12年,剥夺政治权利2年。


  
  纪烈武说自己身体现在很好,平时也不累。“这个(监狱)院子比较大,有些绿化。”纪烈武说,他现在“主要是参加绿化劳动。闲的时候在屋里看看书,学习学习。”主要看一些经济、哲学类的书。

  当谈起李洪志是否知道李昌、王治文和自己现在的情况,是否会关心他们时,纪烈武笑了起来,“这个不知道,这个一无所知!”

  李洪志不是会穿墙、会隐身吗?会不会采取这种方式来看自己从前的骨干与亲信呢?纪烈武说,从他个人过去接触过的气功、宗教来看,李洪志说这些隐身之类的话他并不排斥,“觉得这些好像真的一样”。“但(李洪志)他作为个人来讲,他隐身呀、或者穿墙呀什么的我没见过。”纪烈武说,“没见过,对!”

  谈起李洪志在国外吹得沸沸扬扬的“退党大潮”,说什么国内有1400多万人退党,纪烈武又笑了。“这东西我觉得中国,这些是政治行为!”纪烈武说,“党员在中国肯定是一个政治概念了,肯定不是一个练功的概念,所以,它肯定不是一个单纯的修炼或练功的行为。”

  纪烈武也曾听人讲过所谓的辽宁沈阳苏家屯有个“集中营”,什么法轮功学员在这器官被活体移植。( 点击访问相关“苏家屯”文章(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(8)(9))提起时他又笑了。他简直不能理解那些说的是什么。“不可思议!”他笑道。

  再谈到法轮功在海外围攻、起诉国家领导人和文艺界、科学界等等人士时,纪烈武还是笑。“怎么说呢?具体情况我不是太了解,但是如果这事是真的话,我觉得怎么说呢,非常失去理智了,”纪烈武说,“我不知道用什么语言表达这种这种……”

  面对李洪志、法轮功在海外所扬言的,法轮功大量学员在大陆遭到迫害、虐待、活体器官移植及至死的谣言,纪烈武说,“根本这种情况都是不存在的!”

  “我想有一个基本的判断吧,最起码作为中国这样一个社会制度,没有可能去把这些人器官移植什么等等,会做这些事情,不可能的事情!”纪烈武有些激动,“苏加屯那时讲有几千人,我听说,当时讲的情况我不知道这事情和法轮功有关系。这件事情和法轮功有关系,绝对不可能的事情!”

  当问到自己是否在监狱里受到很残忍的对待时,纪烈武非常冷静地连声道,“绝对没有,没有,绝对没有,绝对没有。”

  “因为现在随着社会的进展,社会法制方方面面都很健全了,这种情况,我想我没有其他人也不会有。”纪烈武抬高声音道,“我不相信这些事情,我不相信这些事情!这个社会再落后的地方再偏僻的地方都不可能存在这种情况!”

  “散播谣言是不可理解的东西。不可思议。真是……”纪烈武说。“和他们过去做好人呢,或者对社会有好处的概念完全不一样了,完全不是一会事了。”

  “(李洪志)他应该对这些事情负责。因为不符合事实的事情。”纪烈武说,“那是对这个国家对这个民族不负责任。”

  “我觉得随着时间的推移,人们会对法轮功(的认识)会越来越清楚。很多(练法轮功的)人都会认清楚自己的行为对社会的危害,不会参与这些东西。”纪烈武说,“另外一个方面呢,随着时间的推移,法轮功过去的说法和现在的表现越来越不一致的时候,人们对法轮功这种自身的暴露,自身的行为,人们也会看得越来越清楚。所以,我觉得对大家来讲,都会有一个认清法轮功本身面目(是)一个邪教本质的过程。”


  谈德音:跟你谈了这么多,给我的感觉你就是被骗了被利用了,我就是这么感觉的,我不知道我说的你认同不认同。……
  纪烈武:应该是这样,应该是这样,应该是这样。对!因为起码我们不可能去做一些危害社会危害国家的事情,这不可能是我们的一个想法。当时主要是想健身呢、修心呢,这不可能是我们的一个初衷。
  谈德音:如果这样的话,那你以后对法轮功还会……?
  纪烈武:不可能的事情,不可能参与这些事情,……绝对不可能。
  纪烈武:将来有机会再给国家做贡献就是将来的事情了。今天只能面对现实今天的事情。

Ji Liewu: 'Sujiatun' affair is inconceivable

Seven years ago when at the age of 36, he had been the director and general manager of the China Nonferrous Metal Industry and Trade Group (Hong Kong) and the East Copper Limited Company. He had been stationed in Hong Kong for 10 years.

Seven years later, still in the prison, he spoke with pride as before, "In those days, I had done a good job in my field (trade investment and futures, etc.)." At that time, he was highly recognized and respected by his counterparts at home and abroad.

However, Falun Gong gradually made him lose his mind. In 1999, he was sentenced to twelve years in prison and deprived of political rights for two years for using cult organization to undermine the implement of law, causing death by organizing evil denomination, and illegally obtaining state secrets.

Ji Liewu said that he was fine and not weary in prison. "The courtyard (of the prison) is big and green", said Ji. What he did

"Mostly was afforesting the yard. At spare time, he usually read books and do some studies", mostly about economy and philosophy.

When talking about whether Li Hongzhi knew and cared about the situation of Li Chang, Wang Zhiwen and himself, Ji laughed and said, "I don't know about that. I have no idea about that at all."

Can't Li Hongzhi penetrate the wall and conceal himself? Will he go and see his cadres and confidants in that way? Ji Liewu said, in the view of Qigong and religion he had learnt about in the past, he did not oppose Li's saying of concealing himself and so on. "It sounds real. But I have never seen him concealing himself or penetrating a wall," said Ji, "Yeah, never."

When talking about the uproar by Li Hongzhi abroad about "the tide of quitting the Communist Party", saying that more than 14 million people had quit the Party, Ji laughed again. "I think they sound very Chinese. These are political acts," Ji said, "Party member is definitely a political concept in China. It must not be a concept of Qigong. So, it is certainly not a simple act of self-cultivation or practice."

Ji had also been told that there was a "concentration camp" in Sujiatun in Shen Yang city, Liao Ning province, where the organs of the practitioners were transplanted. When talking about this, he laughed and said he can scarcely understand what was talking about. "Inconceivable!"

Talking about Falun Gong's siege and prosecution of Chinese leaders and some people in the field of literature and science, Ji still laughed. "How to say, I don't know that concretely. But if it is true, how to say, I think it is very irrational," Ji said, "I just do not know how to say..."

As to the rumors that a lot of Falun Gong practitioners had been persecuted and abused, and their organs were transplanted, which caused death, Ji said, "It has never occurred!"

"I think everyone has a basic judgment. At least as the social system in China, it is impossible to transplant one's organs like that, to do things like that. Totally impossible!" Ji Liewu got excited, "It was said there were thousands of people at Sujiatun by then, as I heard. When talking about the situation there, I did not know that was related to Falun Gong. This matter and the Falun Gong is, absolutely not related! "

When asked if he was brutally treated in prison, Ji said calmly, "No, absolutely not, absolutely not, absolutely not."

"With the development of the society, the legal system of the society has been strengthened. No one could do that to me and I don't think to any others, either." Raising his voice, Ji said, "I don't believe that. I don't believe that! This kind of thing cannot occur even in the most underdeveloped society or uncultured place!"

"Spreading rumors is baffling! Inconceivable!" Ji Liewu said, "It's totally different from their former ideas of to be good people and to be good to the society. It's totally different."

"Li Hongzhi should be hold responsible for that, because those matters do not conform to the facts." Ji said, "It is very irresponsible to the country and the nation."

"I think as time goes by, people will get clearer and clearer ideas about Falun Gong. People who practice Falun Gong will realize its harm to the society and will not take part in activities like that any more," Ji said, "On the other side, as time going on, when what Falun Gong has said is different from what it has done, people will have a clear look on its self-betrayal acts. So, I think we all need time to recognize that Falun Gong is an evil cult."

Tan Deyin: Talking so much with you, I feel that you are made use of by the swindlers. It is my feeling. I do not know if you agree with me.

Ji Liewu: It should be right. It should be right. It should be right. It is right! Because at least it is impossible for us to do things harmful to the society or the country. It's not our thoughts. It's not our original intention. What we wanted was just keeping fit and self-cultivation.

Tan Deyin: If so, what would you do with Falun Gong in future?

Ji Liewu: It is impossible. I will absolutely never take part in these matters... Never. It is a prospect to contribute to the country in the future if possible. Now, I can just face things at present.

(Kaiwind, October 12, 2006)

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