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纪烈武:李洪志不想让“4·25”组织者出面(中英对照)

发布日期:2006年10月11日   文章来源:凯风网   作者:谈德音
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  7年前,还是36岁的时候,他已是(香港)中国有色金属工业贸易集团、东方铜业有限公司董事、总经理;驻香港已达10年。
  7年后,仍在监狱的他依然自豪地说,“当时,我在(贸易投资、期货等)领域里面做得相当不错。”那时的他,在国际、国内同行中均获得较高的认可和尊重。
  然而,法轮功使他逐渐丧失理性。1999年,他因犯组织利用邪教组织破坏法律实施、组织利用邪教组织致人死亡、非法获取国家秘密罪,被判处有期徒刑12年,剥夺政治权利2年。


  2006年9月,纪烈武再回忆1999年“4.25”法轮功人员围攻中南海事件时说,“有些细节可能记不太清楚了。”

  但是,有一个细节纪烈武记得相当清楚。讲起时他还笑过几次。那就是,李洪志曾想不让“4.25”组织者出面。然而,这个打算破产了。

  “法轮功传功以来,练的人比较多,社会上一些人有不同的看法。这些看法一开始是民间的,后来上升到媒体。上升到媒体后呢,法轮功里面的人也有不同的看法。当时到99年4月份的时候,天津有一个教育学院(天津师范大学),有一个杂志。杂志上登了一篇何作庥的文章,其中提到了法轮功。提到法轮功以后,当时天津的一些学员那就找学院理论,想让学院的杂志社给更正,就僵持到那了。僵到那以后,可能是天津的公安部门那就让这些学员那要无条件撤离。”纪烈武说,“当时正好李洪志在北京。他是4月22号在北京。当时发生这个事情正好是在4月19号到20几号。”

  纪烈武当时也在北京。他说,李洪志到北京了解情况以后,“就让人向上反映,向上反映就想让更多学员去公安部、国务院啊或者是中央啊去解决问题。”

  “当时李洪志让李昌去组织这件事情,给大家打招呼。”纪烈武说,“李昌按照这个意思,4月23号上午见的李洪志,下午就召集了北京市的辅导员,通报了一下情况。”

  4月24号。“李洪志想去香港嘛,当时我上午就送他去机场了。”纪烈武说,“当时李昌他们这边呢,就在雍和宫那边的一个辅导站开会。当我回来时会议就结束了,赶了一个尾巴。也知道布置下去了。”

  4月25号,李洪志的一个电话,更把纪烈武牢牢拴住了。

  “25号,我原来定的日程是想和李洪志一块去香港,然后从香港去澳大利亚,后来没走成。”纪烈武说,“25号早上我出来是拿行李走的,我还是想去香港。但是25号因为发生了情况,李洪志当时给我打电话,打电话一直了解情况,所以也就不便离开。”

  “等于一天我就在联络,没走成。”纪烈武说。

  “李洪志走的时候定了一个原则:…………叫(法轮大法)研究会的人不要出面,不要以研究会的组织的名义去。”

  “就是不让研究会的人出面组织这件事。现场可能要有人组织呀,当时李洪志就不让这些人到现场去。”纪烈武说,当时,李洪志就是不让组织者出面。

  “24号已经通知这个活动的情况,是有人去做这件事情了。”纪烈武说,“当时李洪志讲去中南海的时候不要出面,不要以(法轮大法)研究会的人组织,好像有人在组织这件事一样。大家自愿的去,他的意思就是大家每个人都有这个愿望,都想反映情况。当时是这么个想法。”

  “后来去的人很多以后,政府要跟(法轮功)这些个有代表(能力)的人去谈,这样的话,研究会或北京辅导站自然就面临这个问题。”纪烈武说,“所以当时我就打电话给李洪志,原来说不要出面,现在人家找你谈,要不要去谈去?”

  “这样的话李洪志说那找谈你还得谈去。就让李昌、王治文他们几个人去谈去了。”纪烈武说他当时没进中南海,“我当时主要是在外面。”

  “这一天情况主要是,可能李洪志希望那边看看有什么结果谈谈。”纪烈武说,“一直到晚上,(李昌)他们出来劝大家回去的时候,我在给李洪志研究,我说李昌他们已经出来了,劝大家要回去。”

  “后来李洪志也同意他们,大家先离开。”纪烈武说。

  谈德音:跟你谈了这么多,给我的感觉你就是被骗了被利用了,我就是这么感觉的,我不知道我说的你认同不认同。……
  纪烈武:应该是这样,应该是这样,应该是这样。对!因为起码我们不可能去做一些危害社会危害国家的事情,这不可能是我们的一个想法。当时主要是想健身呢、修心呢,这不可能是我们的一个初衷。
  谈德音:如果这样的话,那你以后对法轮功还会……?
  纪烈武:不可能的事情,不可能参与这些事情,……绝对不可能。
  纪烈武:将来有机会再给国家做贡献就是将来的事情了。今天只能面对现实今天的事情。

Ji Liewu: Li Hongzhi does not want the organizers to appear

Seven years ago when at the age of 36, he had been the director and general manager of the China Nonferrous Metal Industry and Trade Group (Hong Kong) and the East Copper Limited Company. He had been stationed in Hong Kong for 10 years.

Seven years later, still in the prison, he spoke with pride as before, "In those days, I had done a good job in my field (trade investment and futures, etc.)." At that time, he was highly recognized and respected by his counterparts at home and abroad.

However, Falun Gong gradually made him lose his mind. In 1999, he was sentenced to twelve years in prison and deprived of political rights for two years for using cult organization to undermine the implement of law, causing death by organizing evil denomination, and illegally obtaining state secrets.

In September 2006, when Ji Liewu recollected the besiegement of Zhongnanhai by those who practiced Falun Gong, he said, "I can not remember some details clearly."

However, there was a detail Ji remembered quite clearly. And when he talked about it, he laughed several times. That was, Li Hongzhi had planned that the organizers of the "4.25" inciden could not appear. But his contemplation fell through.

Many people had practiced Falun Gong since it spread and there were different opinions about it. Those opinions were first among the people, and then among the media. Since then, different voices began to appear among inside the Disciples of Falun Gong. In April 1999, a magazine of Tian Jin Normal University published an article written by He Zuoxiu, which criticized Falun Gong. Then, the Disciples in Tian Jin went to argue with the university and demanded the magazine make corrections. Both sides refused to budge and at last, the police asked the Disciples to unconditionally withdraw. Ji said, "At that time, Li Hongzhi was just in Beijing. He was in Beijing on April 22 and that happened just on April 19 to around 20."

Ji Liewu was also in Beijing at that time. He said, when Li Hongzhi arrived Beijing to know the situation, he asked the Disciples to report the situation to the higher-up. It meant that they should report to the Public Security Ministry , the State Council or the Central Committee of the Party to solve the problem.

"At that time, Li Hongzhi asked Li Chang to organize the besiegement and inform the Disciples." Ji said, "According to Li Hongzhi’s instruction, after meeting with Li Hongzhi on the morning of April 24, Li Chang called the assistants in Beijing for a meeting and circulated the notice."

On April 24, Li Hongzhi were going to Hong Kong. " I saw him off in the morning," Ji said, "Li Chang had a meeting in the assistant station near the Lama Temple. When I came back, the meeting was going over. I knew the plan was assigned."

On April 25, a call from Li Hongzhi made Ji tied up with him more firmly.

"On April 25, I had planed to Hong Kong with Li Hongzhi, and then to Australia from Hong Kong. But I failed to leave." Ji said, "I took my luggage and was going to the airport on the morning of April 25, still going to Hong Kong. But the affair happened on 25th and Li Hongzhi was calling me to know the situation all the time, so I did not leave."

"It meant that I was making phone calls all day long, and failed to leave."

"When Li Hongzhi left, he made a principle that those in Falun Gong Research could not appear and could not be organized in the name of Falun Gong Research."

"Li Hongzhi did not want those of Falun Gong Research to organize the affair. But it should have organizers on the spot. Anyway, Li Hongzhi did not allow these people to go to the scene."

"The affair had been informed on April 24 and there should be somebody to do the affair." Ji said, "Li Hongzhi said when going to Zhongnanhai, those in the Research could not appear and it could not be organized in the name of the Research. Everyone should be voluntary to go. His meaning was that everyone had the desire to report the situation. That was what he thought then.

"On April 25, many people went to besiege Zhongnanhai. The government wanted to talk with the representatives. Thus, the Research or the assistant station faced the problem to negotiate." Ji said, "So I called Li Hongzhi and asked him whether to break the original plan to negotiate with them?"

"Li Hongzhi said that since they wanted to negotiate with us, we had better to talk with them. Then, Li Chang and Wang Zhiwen went to negotiate." Ji said he did not go to Zhongnanhai, "I was outside."

"The situation of the day was that, Li Hongzhi wanted to see the result of the negotiation." Ji said, "Until the evening, when Li Chang went out of Zhongnanhai and advised us to go back, I was reporting the situation to Li Hongzhi."

"Later, Li also agreed with their demand that we should leave first." Ji said.

Tan Deyin: Talking so much with you, I feel that you are made use of by the swindlers. It is my feeling. I do not know if you agree with me.

Ji Liewu: It should be right. It should be right. It should be right. It is right! Because at least it is impossible for us to do things harmful to the society or the country. It's not our thoughts. It's not our original intention. What we wanted was just keeping fit and self-cultivation.

Tan Deyin: If so, what would you do with Falun Gong in future?

Ji Liewu: It is impossible. I will absolutely never take part in these matters... Never. It is a prospect to contribute to the country in the future if possible. Now, I can just face things at present.

(Kaiwind, October 11, 2006)

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