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李昌:我们被李洪志蒙蔽了!(中英对照)
采访李昌系列报道之一
   2006-09-26   来源:凯风网   作者:谈德音

  他整理出版了李洪志的第一本“法轮功”书籍;
  他亲自操办了李洪志在海外各辅导站的组建及大法研究会的注册;
  1995年李洪志出国后,他更是“法轮大法研究会”在中国境内的直接负责人。
  他,就是李昌。一个李洪志曾经的亲信、法轮功组织的骨干;一个曾为李洪志、为法轮功尽忠效力几近痴狂的人;一个曾想把余生都贡献给法轮功的人。
  为了法轮功,这个南开大学理工科的毕业生、在1999年7月20日被监视居住时已有39年零20天党龄的老党员,不惜提前两年从公安部退休。此前,李昌是正处级国家干部。
  为了法轮功,李昌直接策划和指挥了震惊中外的4.25法轮功练习者围攻中南海事件,以及此前的围攻北京电视台事件……
  2006年9月,已是67岁的李昌在狱中回首那段历史时,平和,理性。他说,“我得承担责任!”


  如果不是穿着狱服,李昌就如隔壁家看护着孙子的老爷爷,但气色与气质更好些。去年的时候,因为血压不稳定,李昌还会头晕。今年没有。因为有点老年性的初期白内障,李昌有时会用力地挤眼睛。“身体还行。”李昌笑着说,“今年比去年好。”

  李昌比较注重健康。他也是因为健康原因与李洪志、法轮功走到一起的。

  1991年,李昌支援海南建省回到北京后,身体不太好。50多岁的李昌开始练起了气功。“各种运动我又不大有兴趣。气功很神秘,”他说,“我总觉得要比吃药好!” 1992年,李昌参加了李洪志在北京举行的第一期法轮功培训班。此后,李昌放弃了其他气功,专修法轮功。“我听得很认真,”李昌说,“又拿一个砖头的录音机,还有笔记本。”李昌的“好学”与“认真”给李洪志留下了印象。

  李昌因为自己的身份很快得到李洪志的重用。起初,李昌只是协助李洪志在北京的大弟子李晶锋为法轮功做事。那时,李晶锋是北京的“头”。“后来,李洪志跟李晶锋和李晶锋的弟弟李晶超搞僵了,他要找北京的本地人当弟子。再一个话呢,我这个的身份,也可能各地公安办关系有点方便。”李昌说。于是,李昌“主动就把这个(北京)辅导站给组织起来了,北京是第一个辅导站。”

  李昌帮李洪志出了第一本书。“每个比较知名的气功师都有一本本功法的专著,从功法到功理到动作的图形。”李昌说,“这时呢,李(洪志)没有书,就有一本小册子,那么我们就说在北京有条件帮你出版。”此后,李昌“把学习班的录象带我放一段记一段,再重复修改,在北戴河休假的时候,我就把它整理出一份,给李寄去了,……就成了第一本的《中国法轮功》。”

  李昌坦言自己有点迷信。李昌认为,法轮功讲的“真善忍”与我国提倡的“真善美”接近,他接受。而对法轮功宣扬的封建迷信他也能够兼容。“你说神和道呀然后就怎么地了就升天了,我也能信一点,但也不全信,因为我毕竟是学物理出身的。”李昌说,“要说我纯迷信,我不太能接受,要说有点迷信思想,有点信天命的思想,我还能接受。”

  李昌还坦言,自己对李洪志对法轮功不敢怀疑。“因为那时我们只要出来一个气功师,他就是高人,经过修炼的。他讲的事情存在与不存在、可能与不可能,我们不是那个层次的人。”李昌说。“所以,李洪志这么肯定的说法,肯定有深刻的认识,算是一种迷信的历史状况吧。那个时候,所有练气功的人呢,不光是那个时候,练气功练任何一个门派,他都首先要教你,你想不通的,你可以放一放,你不要你边怀疑边练。”

  “唉!”李昌叹了口气,“信则灵。不信,你边练,边疑惑,那你能练好吗?所以,大概不光是李洪志,任何一个气功师在传功法的时候都会说:你就这么办,听我怎么怎么的,都是这个说法。”

  事实上,法轮功所谓成仙成佛的事也是后来逐渐加上去的。“我从开始练的时候,第一期学习班没有神、佛之类的,只是从功法来讲。还没有直接说把练功的人练成神了。”李昌说,“基本上是在95年或者96年以后,才把法轮功改叫成‘法轮大法’。叫法轮功的时候呢,就是中国气功门派的一种,叫大法的时候就不同于各种气功了,而是修佛的一种大法,就是95年96年,四年以前还没有这样的语言。”

  李昌说,“法轮功”之所以后来改称为“法轮大法”,是因为“每个功法都有它的依托”。“李洪志和其他的人也有一些说法。田瑞生的功法是什么功法呢?是黄鼠狼的附体,给他的能量,所以他定出几点注意事项,别在晚上黑地儿练,要在亮地儿练,怎么怎么的,这都是黄鼠狼忌讳的东西……”

  但是,李昌当年对法轮功里的那些人也有看法。“法轮功的一些人的话呢,反正一些什么事情呀,什么刮什么风呀,马上天要变了,我分析来就觉得这个人神经有问题!”

  1999年,李昌因犯组织利用邪教组织破坏法律实施、组织利用邪教组织致人死亡、非法获取国家秘密罪,被判处有期徒刑18年,剥夺政治权利5年。

  “我很想不开!”李昌说。

  “从我个人一辈子的行为,包括我做法轮功,忙忙碌碌呀,家庭呀,就我们这些负责人春节只是初一在家,其他时间都是大家在商量开会练功各种事情,来商量传法这件事情,当作公益事情去做,所以我很不能接受!”李昌说,“我对法轮功很信任,也很有感情,我想后半生就这么投入这项事业了。”

  但是,作为一个老党员,再看过《李洪志其人其事》电视片,并了解到其他一些情况后,“虽然心里有些不好受,但也得服从中央决定,这是大的政治形势。”李昌说,“这时我就表态,我服从中央决定,跟法轮功决裂,以后不再练了。”此后,李昌将整个法轮功从办班到传播到4.25的全过程,“从头缕过一遍”,配合专案组的调查。

  《李洪志其人其事》及4.25后李洪志的所作所为让李昌很受“伤害”。

  “象《李洪志其人其事》的事,比如说身份证。”李昌说,“那个身份证的事,我还专门和几个人到过气功科研会,跟他们解释。就让李洪志把新的身份证拿来,这身份证是搞错的了,因为李洪志这么跟我说,我也这么做解释。

  “原来跟我们说是他(李洪志)参军的时候把生日搞错了。那我们(想)这个错的事情哪里都可能发生有的。所以就这么去把他的话再给群众去解释。”李昌说,“这个事情本身呢就是说,本身它是谎言,我们去给谎言辩护,完了我们还给人家做官方解释,这种事件本身也是一种受蒙蔽的形式。”

  “4月22他(李洪志)回来的,4月23号我们见面的。我们见面的时候呢就整个说起天津和天安门的这些事情和这一些个安排。”李昌说,他原来一直认为他为法轮功所做的事情“是光明磊落”的,“在那时我们怎么做,在哪里都是公开的。”李昌说,“所以在专案组和监视居住期间,我说你们跟我谈什么问题,我可以有观点和错误的看法,但是我讲的事实不会有一件是错误的,我不会隐瞒包含任何一件事情,也不会夸大,缩小哪些事情,我的行为和思维都是非常公开的,我怕的是人家不知道,我希望能更多的人真实地知道我。”也正因为李昌这样一种思想,后来李洪志在境外否认4.25前后回国策划围攻中南海行动的言论直接“刺醒”了他。

  “所以来讲呢,悉尼呀还是在哪,我忘记了,反正就在澳大利亚讲法,就最后这一站,我一下说不出来了。(外国记者)就说北京的4.25你知道不知道你去过没去过?然后他(李洪志)说我不知道,没去过。因为你最起码的常识,你出境有个出境卡,入境有个入境卡,哪个国家都这样,你跑了和尚跑得了庙吗?你那个单子在那呢。”李昌气愤地说,“所以这个事情呢,我觉得没有必要说谎,你有什么必要说谎呢?来了就是来了,有什么意见有什么想法说什么想法,对与错呀,你都可以做出表达。”

  这时的李昌有些伤感。“过去我对他(李洪志)很尊敬很尊敬,在那个时候我就产生了很大心理——从来没感觉这样……”

  “(他)说我太政治化,”李昌说,“除此以外的话,(我们)没有更多的冲突。”李昌知道,“几乎所有的气功师跟那些学员弟子们弄翻,都是为挣钱,为分钱。李洪志这里就没有这些,”是因为“专门有一个人给他理财,管账。”“他办班的钱那,都归专人管理,到最后都落在他一个人上面。”

  “象王志文我们都是没有钱的人,也是挣工薪的,我算起来也得有万八千的搭进去。你象纪烈武我估计恐怕得一万以上,至少得五万以上,你象姚洁,都得搭上好多钱。因为他们做公司,收入比较大。另外有的来讲我可以签单报销。”李昌说,“我这个政府官员不行,我到哪报销去?我只能自己报销!”

Li Chang: We all fooled by Li Hongzhi

He compiled and published Li Hongzhi's first Falun Gong book.

He set up all the overseas tutoring stations of Falun Gong and managed to have Research Society of Falun Dafa successfully registered.

Since Li Hongzhi went abroad in 1995, he became the chief leader of Research Society of Falun Dafa in the mainland of China.

He is just Li Chang. As a former favorite of Li Hongzhi and a leading figure in Falun Gong, Li Chang used to be completely faithful to Li Hongzhi and crazily believe in Falun Gong, and Li Chang used to think that he would work for Falun Gong wholeheartedly for the rest of his life.

Li Chang graduated from Nankai University as a student of science and technology. By the time he was enforced with residential surveillance on July 20, 1999, Li Chang has been a member of Communist Party for 39 years and 20 days. However, just for the sake of Falun Gong, Li Chang decided to retire two years earlier than expected from the Ministry of Public Security. Then Li Chang has been a national cadre of division level.

In order to defend Falun Gong, Li Chang directly plotted and commanded "April 25" beleaguerment of Zhongnanhai by Falun Gong practitioners, which shocked the whole country and the world. The former besiegement of Beijing TV Station was also organized and launched by Li Chang.

In September 2006, Li Chang of 67 years old recalled that period peacefully and reasonably. He remarked, "I am guilty. I have to be responsible for what I have done."

If he was not in the prison uniform, Li Chang would just look like an ordinary grandpa who was living next door and looking after his grandson. And he looked more like a learned man. Last year, he would feel dizzy from time to time because of unstable blood pressure. This year he felt better. Because he was suffering from age-related early cataract, Li Chang would sometimes wink his eyes hard. Li Chang said with smiles, "I am healthier and better than last year."

Li Chang usually pays close attention to his health. In fact, he was involved in Falun Gong just because of keeping healthy.

In 1991, Li Chang returned to Beijing from Hainan where he was sent to help the establishment of Hainan Province. He didn't feel very well. So Li Chang in his fifties began to practice Qigong. He explained, "I am not interested in any kind of sports. Qigong is very mysterious to me. I feel practicing Qigong is better than taking any medicine." In 1992, Li Chang attended the first round of Falun Gong tutoring classes held by Li Hongzhi in Beijing. Since then he gave up all the other Qigong and specialized in Falun Gong. Li Chang said, "I listened to each class very attentively. Every time, I would bring a portable tape-recorder and a notebook and made notes carefully." Li Chang's diligence and earnestness had impressed Li Hongzhi greatly.

Because of his special social status, Li Chang was soon arranged by Li Hongzhi to be in charge of many affairs. At the beginning, Li Chang only functioned as an assistant to Li Jingfeng, first important disciple of Li Hongzhi. At that time Li Jingfeng was the chief leader of Falun Gong in Beijing. "Later, Li Hongzhi broke up with Li Jingfeng and his brother Li Jingchao. So Li Hongzhi intended to find a Beijing native to be his helper. Besides, taking into account of my job and status, he thought I would help him efficiently solve many problems. Then I was put into the important position." Li Chang did not disappoint Li Hongzhi. He actively set up Beijing tutoring station of Falun Gong, which was the first station of this kind in China.

Li Chang also helped Li Hongzhi to publish his first book. Li Chang said, "Every famous Qigong master has got a book to spread his own ideas, origins and postures. But Li has only got a booklet about Falun Gong. So I encouraged him to have a book published in Beijing." Li Chang recalled, "So I played Li Hongzhi's video tapes one section by another, transcribed all he said and revised it repeatedly. When I was on vacation in Beidaihe, I finally compiled a copy and sent it to Li Hongzhi. Later this was published and entitled 'China Falun Gong'".

Li Chang admitted that he was rather superstitious. As a result, he thought "truthfulness, compassion and forearance" in Falun Gong were in consistent with "honesty, kindness and beauty" in Chinese traditional culture. And he could be compatible with the superstitious ideas spread in Falun Gong. He said, "Though I majored in physics, I am not an out-and-out materialist. As for the stories that gods or Taoists could go into the heaven, I don't believe them all, but I am really convinced to some extent. I don't think I am totally superstitious. I admit that I believe in some superstitious ideas, such as fatality and comeuppance."

Li Chang also admitted that he dared not hold any doubt at Li Hongzhi and Falun Gong. He said, "At that time, any famous Qigong masters were taken for granted that they must be supernaturally powerful. We haven't reached their level, so we can't challenge what they taught was true or reliable. Therefore, since Li Hongzhi spread his ideas so firmly and confidently, we would think that he must have unusual reasoning and cognition. Of course, this is a kind of blind worship. But at that period, even at any periods, if you practice a branch of Qigong, the master will first tell you to let go of what you cannot understand and warn you not to practice Qigong while having doubts on your mind."

Li Chang continued with a sigh, "It is said that only if you believe in Qigong firmly, you can make it work. Otherwise you will get nowhere. Therefore, any Qigong masters as well as Li Hongzhi will urge you to follow what they have said without any doubt."

In fact, with its expansion, Falun Gong has gradually added some new functions, such as practicing Falun Gong could help you become gods or go into heaven. Li Chang said, "When I first contacted Falun Gong, Li Hongzhi only taught his Qigong ideas and postures. He has not mentioned how to become gods through Falun Gong. Approximately since 1995 or 1996, Falun Gong has been renamed as Falun Dafa. This new title made great difference. Formerly Falun Gong was only considered as a small branch of Chinese Qigong. But Falun Dafa referred to one special supernatural way to make you become gods. That means Falun Gong is different from any other Qigong."

Li Chang explained, "Falun Gong was changed to Falun Dafa because each Qigong should have its origins or bases. For example, what does Tian Ruisheng's Qigong originate from? It is said that Tian is the reincarnation of weasel and obtains all his energy from a divine weasel. So Tian usually told his followers to practice his Qigong in the bright places instead of in the dark places or at night, for weasels don't want to be related with darkness. Therefore, Li Hongzhi had to perfect his ideas and add new terms to promote his status."

However, at that time Li Chang did not totally agree to some practitioners' understanding of Falun Gong. He said, "Some practitioners tend to apply Falun Gong to any field. For instance, they think they have got the ability to predict the weather after practicing Falun Gong. I take such kind of words as nonsense and such kind of persons as idiots."

In 1999, Li Chang was accused of organizing cult to destroy social stability, employing cult to incur people's death and illegally getting national secrets; and he was finally sentenced with 18 years imprisonment and 5 years depriving of his political rights.

Li Chang's reaction was, "It's hard for me to accept this result."

Li Chang said, "Recalling my life, I have the courage to say I have been responsible for my work and my family. Since I was involved in Falun Gong, I believe in it and love it deeply. I have been readily busy with Falun Gong affairs. I have spent all my time having meetings or discussions about how to perform or spread Falun Gong. Even during the holidays of Spring Festival, I would only stay at home on first day. I have done all for Falun Gong voluntarily and I had thought to contribute the rest of my lifetime to Falun Gong."

But as an old Party member, especially after he watched the TV program "Who is Li Hongzhi and What has Li Hongzhi done", Li Chang changed a lot, "I felt very depressed. I had to obey the decision made by the Party Central Committee. So I expressed that I would break away from Falun Gong and not practice it any more." Later, Li Chang reviewed clearly Falun Gong's development from the early tutoring classes to widely spreading and to "April 25" besiegement. He has provided much detailed information to the special investigation group.

Li Chang felt hurt a lot after he watched the TV program "Who is Li Hongzhi and What has Li Hongzhi done" and after he got to know what Li Hongzhi had done after "April 25" affair.

Li Chang said, "The TV program 'Who is Li Hongzhi and What has Li Hongzhi done' helped me know more about Li Hongzhi. Take his identification card as an example. Li Hongzhi told us that there was a mistake in his old identification card. So I together with several other practitioners went to Chinese Qigong Researching Association to defend Li Hongzhi's new birth date."

"Li Hongzhi explained to us that his birth date was mistakenly recorded when he joined the army. We thought that this kind of mistake was very easy to occur. So we told Li Hongzhi's excuse to other practitioners and the public. Now I come to know that I have defended his lie and helped to spread his lie. So I was also deceived by Li Hongzhi."

 "Li Hongzhi came back to Beijing on April 22. We met on April 23 and talked about the besiegement in Tianjin and Tian'anmen and the following arrangements." Li Chang always held that what he had done for Falun Gong was frank and openhearted. So Li Chang said, "What we were doing at that time was open and known to all. Even during the period when I was enforced with residential surveillance, I told the special investigation group that I might have some wrong ideas, but I would not hide or deny any affairs, I would not exaggerate or belittle a single matter. What I am doing and what is on my mind are open to the outside. I am not afraid to be known by others. I hope more people can know me clearly and truly." So the frank and straightforward Li Chang could not understand why Li Hongzhi totally denied that he had returned to China and plotted the beleaguerment of Zhongnanhai. Li Chang felt greatly disappointed at Li Hongzhi.

"Maybe in Sydney or somewhere else, I can't remember the place. It must be in Australia. When Li Hongzhi was giving instructions to Falun Gong practitioners, he was asked by some foreign journalists whether he knew the plot of 'April 25' and whether he returned to China at that time and he said 'No' firmly. What a stupid lie! It knows to all that you should have a departure card and entry card. This practice is universal in any country. What is the use of telling lies? Your cards are the best evidence." Li Chang said angrily, "I don't think it necessary to tell such a lie. I don't know why Li Hongzhi denied everything."

Li Chang was very sad, "In the past I have been holding great respect for Li Hongzhi. But from that moment my mind was greatly disturbed."

"In fact, Li Hongzhi and I almost had no conflicts except that he considered me to be a little too politically minded." Li Chang said, "Almost all the Qigong masters would fall out with their followers over the matter of money. But there is no such quarrel over money in Falun Gong because there is one disciple wholly responsible for the finance. In fact, all the money obtained from tutoring classes finally belonged to Li Hongzhi alone."

Li Chang said, "But for us leading figures in Falun Gong, most of us have spent much money of our own for Falun Gong. For example, I have contributed about ten thousands Yuan. Ji Liewu, in my estimation, may have spent more than 10 thousands Yuan, may be 50 thousands Yuan. It is the same case with Yao Jie. Some had their own companies, so they could afford great contributions. Some could apply for reimbursement in their working units. But as for me, being a government official, I neither had high income nor some ways to apply for reimbursement. I have sacrificed for Falun Gong too much."

(Kaiwind, September 26,  2006)

 
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