书摊初识“法轮功”
记者：何老，请先谈一下您最早接触“法轮功”的经过好吗?
何祚庥：1996年11月26日，我在一个书摊上，看到中国广播电视出版社出版的一本书，是李洪志写的《转法轮》。我想，一个负责国家宣传工作部门的出版社，怎么会出一本宣扬佛教的书呢?当时，我以为它就是一本宣传佛教的书。结果，拿回来一看，它还不是宣传佛教的书，利用佛教、贬低佛教，宣传自己封建迷信学说的一本书。所以，我觉得过去我们没有注意到“法轮功”，没有注意李洪志，现在看起来值得注意了。这就是我当时比较深刻的现象。
后来看到了一些材料。很重要的一份是佛教协会陈星桥先生写的一篇系统揭露“法轮功”的文章，从佛教的角度，认为“法轮功”是附佛外道，实际上是一种邪教。读后我想，连佛教都认为“法轮功”是一种邪教，本来只是我以为“法轮功”是一种封建迷信，这下更值得注意了。
记者：什么原因或者什么事情促使你揭露批判“法轮功”呢?
何祚庥：是发生在我身边的一件事，促使我开始批评“法轮功”。
随着“法轮功”势力越来越大，我们所的一些研究生也开始练起了“法轮功”。有一位研究生因练“法轮功”走火入魔，得了精神病。其症状是，整天不吃不喝不说话，也不睡觉。这个情况惊动了我们研究所的负责人，急忙把这位研究生送到了精神病医院。这件事说明练“法轮功”很容易导致精神失常，对“法轮功”确实应该注意了。当时，刚好北京电视台《北京特快》节目采访我，我就说了一下，“练习气功要注意，譬如‘法轮功’就可以练出走火人魔，对这个问题，练功者要当心。练气功虽然对身体有好处，但练得不好，容易走火人魔。”就这么一个简单的谈话，引起“法轮功”练习者围攻北京电视台。我本人也收到了一大批来信，但这些信都是千篇一律，基调一样的。特别是从沈阳寄来的最多，看得出是一种有组织的围攻。我们所和中科院的一些“法轮功”信徒也来找我谈话辩论，这引起了我更大的注意，“只批评了几句，‘法轮功’就如此兴师动众。”后来，“法轮功”信徒又在同一时期，围攻了许多报社和新闻单位，气焰十分嚣张。当时大多数单位都赔礼道歉，只有少数单位顶住了。
一文掀起滔天浪
记者：您批评“法轮功”后，他们组织练功者围攻北京电视台，给您写信，还跟您辩论，您思想上有没有压力?
何祚庥：“法轮功”组织威胁我，要与我辩论，并没有吓倒我，因为真理在我们手里。所以，一有机会我就在报纸杂志上继续揭露他们。譬如，在《科技潮》上我也批评了“法轮功”，当然遭到了他们的围攻。在西安一家学报上我批评了几句，也遭到了围攻。只是这些规模都比较小。至于我，反正是有机会就说。所以，后来我又在《青少年科技博览》上揭露了“法轮功”。
记者：正是您在《青少年科技博览》上揭露“法轮功”的文章，触怒了“法轮功”组织，他们开始大规模地围攻天津师范大学，进而丧心病狂地围攻中南海。请讲一讲写这篇文章的内容和经过好吗?
何祚庥：1999年初，天津师范大学教育学院主办的《青少年科技博览》希望我给青少年说几句话。我想了想，就写了一篇文章《我不赞成青少年练气功》，我觉得这是真正应该给青少年说的话。缘于对“法轮功”印象不佳，在这篇文章里，我两次提到“法轮功”的短处。笫一是“法轮功”宣扬封建迷信，鼓吹“元神不灭定律”，第二是“法轮功”会走火入魔，并再次举了我所研究生练“法轮功”走火入魔的事情。
当我在北京电视台讲了这个研究生练“法轮功”走火入魔的事情后，“法轮功”信徒就来找我辩论，说那个研究生不是练了“法轮功”走火人魔的，而是练了别的气功才致魔的，但说不出别的什么功。这显然是强词夺理，因为我们所都知道这个学生是练“法轮功”的。所以，当时我就说，“你们这样说可就不好了吗。明明是练了“法轮功”才出问题的，偏要推到别的什么气功身上。”他们说：“何老师呀，你不了解情况，那个学生练的姿势不对。”我说：“我是练太极拳的，练太极拳的人，姿势千奇百怪，每个人都不一样。如果练‘法轮功’由于姿势不对的话，就会走火入魔，那‘法轮功’就太危险了。”当时我还没想多么严重，现在看来，事实上要严重得多。这次辩论没有结果。
因此，在《青少年科技博览》的这篇文章中，我特意提到：那个研究生在第一次走火入魔，送到精神病医院治好后，又练“法轮功”，导致第二次走火人魔，这回的症状是嘴里不停地念叨着“李洪志老师还在不断地关注我”。这就更确切地证明了，这个学生是练“法轮功”走火入魔的。他们想抵赖事实，所以对我这段话特别恼火。于是他们就围攻天津师范大学，围攻《青少年科技博览》。但是，为了欺骗“法轮功”学员，他们不让这些学员看我的那篇文章。有人想看，他们就说，文章很长，全是攻击“法轮功”的。其实，我的那篇文章很短，不到一千字，而且只有两个地方提及“法轮功”。就是在他们的蒙蔽宣传下，煽动了一大批人围攻天津师范大学。这就是事情的基本经过。
后来的事情大家都知道，他们又围攻中南海，向党和政府施压，并提出了三条要求：第一条是要求成为合法组织；第二条是要求《青少年科技博览》赔礼道歉；第三条是要求严厉惩办罪魁祸手何祚庥。看起来是因为何祚庥写了一篇文章，其实是“项庄舞剑，意在沛公”是借题发挥。我的这篇小文章微不足道，我批评其他伪气功的文章很多，这只不过是几句话。他们真正的意图是要同党中央、中央人民政府较量一下。现在，他们攻击的矛头已经指向党中央、江总书记和朱总理了。这些情况充分说明了他们围攻中南海完全是有组织、有计划、有预谋的行动。现在揭露出来的大量事实，也充分证明了这是李洪志直接布置，一手操纵的。
围攻辩论无所惧
记者：您提到，“法轮功”组织多次找人与你辩论，您是如何对付他们的?
何祚庥：在我批评“法轮功”的同时，他们派人来同我辩论。譬如，他们在围攻天津《青少年科技博览》的时候，有人到我家骚扰，要同我辩论。我不能不辩，如果不辩论，他们就会认为真理在他们那一边。但怎样进行辩论，是要考虑的。我的对策之一就是问他们是不是“法轮功”代表，当时没有人敢承认自己是“法轮功”代表。我说既然不是“法轮功”的代表，为什么来找我辩论?我批评的是“法轮功”，他们对我有意见，可以来和我辩论，或者是“法轮功”组织派出代表同我辩论，或者是李洪志亲自来同我辩论，我都欢迎。他们中有一人说自己是“法轮功”组织派出的代表，我说欢迎辩论，请他拿出介绍信。但他拿不出介绍信，我说没有介绍信，怎么能证明是“法轮功”的代表，我当然不同他辩论。这是我对付他们的第一种办法。
第二种辩论的办法是，“以子之矛，攻子之盾”。我问他们，“你们‘法轮功’不是讲真、善、忍吗?那就先谈谈忍吧!”我是一名共产党员，共产党是讲斗争哲学的，主张既斗争，又团结。你们是讲忍的，但我看你们“法轮功”的行动与“忍”字相差得很远。我才写了一篇小小的文章，你们就如此兴师动众，大动干戈，一点都不像忍的样子，比我这个讲斗争哲学的共产党员的斗争性强多了。本来，我还以为“法轮功”可能有一点优点，现在看来理论根本不联系实际，讲的与做的根本不一样。当年我们批评蒋介石是“好话说尽，坏事做绝”，现在“法轮功”怎么也犯了同样的毛病?什么是忍?我小时候读过《圣经》，耶稣教导说，“忍”就是别人打你的左耳光时，你把右脸送给他打，这是忍的典范。现在我才说了几句，你们就到我家来吵闹，这怎么称得上“忍”呢?“法轮功”的行动给我的印象实在是太坏了。
再说“真”字。当时我己从陈星桥先生的文章中知道李洪志改生日的事了，我问他们，“李洪志明明是7月7日的生日，为什么要改成5月13号，这算什么真呢?”这时他们好多人还不知道李洪志改生日的事情。我说李洪志办起事来可不讲“真”字。
最后说一说“善”字。一个人要是练“法轮功”生了病就不让吃药，好多病人都死了，报纸上都登了，这种行为对人不能算是“善”吧?
我拿出他们的“真、善、忍”口号，这是李洪志写在书上的，说“真、善、忍”是宇宙的大法，我问说，“你们怎么不听李洪志老师的教导?你们可以说我说的不对，怎么连你们的老师李洪志说的都不听呢?”
我与他们隔着防盗门辩论。当然，如果他们真要撬我家的防盗门，我就打110报警了。不过，在这我要替他们说一句公道话，他们虽然来找我辩论，可还没有动我家的防盗门。
李洪志骗人靠吹牛
记者：何老，“法轮功”能够造成如此广泛恶劣的影响，使成千上万的人受骗上当，您认为其原因何在?
何祚庥：“法轮功”从1989年开始传播，1992——1999年在全国传授，号称有1亿人练功，实际上约有200万人。这个数字是十分惊人的，而且其中有三分之一是共产党员。与中国共产党的发展史相比，1921年建党，1927年领导了一场大革命。那时，中共党员的人数比“法轮功”的人数少多了。在当今中国共产党的领导下，“法轮功”的发展传播速度如此之快，值得注意。
我认为，“法轮功”传播之快，信徒之众，有两个主要原因：
第一个原因是气功在我国有比较广泛的社会基础和比较悠久的历史，尤其是近年来一波又一波的气功热和新造神运动，为“法轮功”的传播提供了机会。特别是李洪志敢于吹牛，吹大牛，吹超级大牛，使人们上当，连我也曾上当。他吹嘘说练“法轮功”的人有6000万，我想即使打个折扣，也有2000万，那也不得了，可实际上只有200万。李洪志吹牛是超乎人性的。
第二个原因是李洪志善于利用别人的影响来抬高自己，宣传“法轮功”。首先是利用佛教，利用释加牟尼，他改动自己的生日，把自己说成是释加牟尼转世，法力超过释加牟尼，是他的几千倍几万倍。其次是利用党的威望，特别是利用江总书记在人民群众中的威信，吹嘘自己。他吹牛说，江总书记给自己的任务就是推迟地球爆炸的时间，骗取人民群众对他的信任，对“法轮功”的迷信；再就是利用现代科学名词和术语，打着科学的幌子，让人们相信“法轮功”。
记者：何老，作为一名科学家，您是如何认定“法轮功”的反科学性和虚伪性呢？换言之，我们如何鉴别伪气功和伪科学呢?
何祚庥：对于判定伪气功伪科学，不是一件容易的事。这涉及如何理解科学精神和科学方法等一系列问题。
不过，凡是那些号称自己控制地球爆炸时间，宣称能够解决任何问题的人，一定是骗子。像“法轮功”声称“一人练功，全家受益”，“我发功，你健康”，吹嘘“外气”等等，这都是吹牛。凡是吹牛，吹特大牛的人，都是骗子或大骗子。据统计表明，练“法轮功”致死人多达743人，其它一些气功，如练不好一样可致人死亡。
还有像严新声称自己在“广州发功，可导致北京清华大学实验室里试管内的物质化学成分发生变化”，“大兴安岭大火是我发功扑灭的”等，完全是骗人的鬼话。其他一些人声称自己有“特异功能”，能预测卫星发射成功与否等，也都是“假科学，真巫术”。
新的“有神论”有一个特点，就是用现代科学名词和术语包装起一个“活着的神”。不像传统宗教所供奉的是死了的神，只有根据他说的话，写的书，自己解释领会其意思。这个“活着的神”能根据不同情况，发布新的指示和新的指令，组织新活动，挑动新事端，对社会安定的破坏性更大，欺骗性更强。新有神论还鼓吹“灵魂不灭定律”、“元神不灭定律”，这是捏造科学!
事实证明，所有的伪气功、伪科学都是反科学，反文明的，都必须加以彻底地揭露和批判。
反伪斗争靠大家
记者：许多人都知道“法轮功”，还有其它形形色色的伪气功、伪科学，了解其虚伪，可真正站出来揭露批判其荒谬者并不多，唯有您仗义执言，一直坚持不懈地与他们作斗争。
何祚庥：不敢当，不敢当，不能这么说。其实有很多人像我一样，勇敢地揭露批判“法轮功”和其它伪气功、伪科学。伪气功的鼓吹者号召所有的气功师，联合起来向四个人发功，第一个是于光远，第二个是司马南，第三个是郭正谊，第四个才是我何祚庥。在他们看来，这四个人是伪气功者所说的四大恶人。对于反对批判伪气功和伪科学，于光远等他们三人都做了大量的工作，我只有一点小贡献，就是我比较熟悉自然科学，从自然科学角度揭露得相对透彻一点，社会公众可能容易接受。
于光远先生是最早反对伪气功和伪科学的。司马南先生是打入气功组织内部，了解许多内情，再站出来进行揭露伪气功的。郭正谊教授是多年来长期地、一贯地与封建迷信作斗争的。他先在北京大学当教授，后到中国科普研究所当所长，始终反对封建迷信。这里面有个小故事。
郭教授家里要装电话，电话局里给的电话号码是除了局号，后面的四位数是“4444”。为什么会是这个号码呢?电话局的人说“这个号码让不出去，没人要，你不是反对伪科学吗，就给你吧!”郭教授一听，连忙说“好，好，好!我从来不信邪!这有什么关系?有4444我就会死呀，在乐谱中，‘4’是念‘发’，我的‘4444’是‘发发发发’。我才不信这种封建迷信。给我这个号码好啦，我的朋友好记。”这显示了郭教授鲜明的个性。
下面我再介绍几个人：
中央党校副校长龚育之教授，是全国著名的马列学者、经济学家，是邓小平理论研究权威，写了许多书。龚育之教授从马克思主义的角度，揭露批判伪科学。这是非常重要的。重要性在于过去仅从自然科学角度批判，现在从马克思主义角度指出，现代伪科学与马克思主义的精神原理相违背的，提醒马克思主义者注意伪科学。
张洪林教授，中国中医研究院气功研究室的主任，专门研究气功的。他非常熟悉气功历史、方法，写了一些书，揭露伪气功。他还专门做了一些实验。他的实验证明，只要阻断心理暗示，所有“外气”的种种神奇效应都会失灵。也就是说，所谓“外气”的神奇效应，实际上是心理暗示所起的作用。但这个心理暗示只对某些人产生作用，对其他人或非人物体不会产生任何作用。所以张洪林教授做了很好的工作。
张彤玲大夫，他是一名精神病医生，研究了许多因练功走火入魔的病例，有十分丰富的临床经验，曾著书呼吁社会关注练功走火人魔的现象。
李力研教授，他也写了许多书，批判伪气功的狂热鼓吹者柯云路。此外，还有一位李胜先大夫，长期在农村行医，对巫医泛滥现象和借气功治病名义推行现代巫术作了大量系统的调查研究，为揭露批判伪气功做了很多贡献。
还有一位大家十分尊敬的人，就是庄逢甘院士，他首先站出来揭露“预测大师”陈林峰。因为外界盛传，因陈林峰预测卫星发射有功，航天部重奖他20万元人民币。庄逢甘院士经过认真的调查研究，发现所谓陈林峰受重奖一事，实际上是陈林峰假借“世界华人协会”名义奖励自己，以此抬高自己。陈本人就是这个组织的副理事长。
其他的还有像清华大学张孝先校长、《工人日报》的孟东明、朱海燕等人，也都做了大量揭露批判伪气功、伪科学的工作，我就不一一叙述了。
联手智斗张宝胜
记者：您还揭露批判过其它伪气功和伪科学事件，能给我们的读者谈谈好吗?
何祚庥：先讲一下揭露批判“水变油”的事情吧，这是科学骗子王洪成的“发明”。1993年1月28日，在一家著名的全国性报纸上，登了一条消息，“中国的第五大发明是水变油”。当时，正是八届政协会议期间，科技界人士看到以后，议论纷纷，都认为很荒谬，应该揭露和批判。大家推举我写一篇批判文章。
我先收集了多家宣传此事的报纸，发现不同报纸宣传的水油比例都不同，相互矛盾。我据此写了一篇文章，进行分析和批评。送三家全国性的大报，几个星期过后都没见发表。于是，又送到一家科技专业性质的报社，也未能发表。
1994年，党中央、国务院发出了《关于加强科普宣传工作的几点意见》，时任国家科委主任的宋健同志召集会议，商讨如何贯彻落实中央指示，号召科学家们著文宣传科学，反对伪科学。他得知我写过一篇批判“水变油”的文章未能发表后，批示《科技日报》刊登。此文一发表，后来多家报纸登载多篇文章揭露批判“水变油”。
“水变油”发明的相信者，还曾多次邀请我到东北做实验，以便让人们信服。我说，既然这个发明是科学的，应具有普遍性，“真理的普通性应该和地点无关”，于是邀请他们到北京来做试验。他们到底心虚，不敢来北京做实验，驳证了他们的荒谬。
关于王洪成及其“水变油”的骗局直到不久前才得以彻底解决。
再讲一个就是揭露“中国第一超人张宝胜”的事情。张宝胜声称自己有许多特异功能，如用意念将药丸抖出瓶外，耳朵识字等。我和其他一些科学家对此一直持不相信和批判的态度。有一次，有机会验证张宝胜的特异功能，并准许我们自己挑选试样品。后来，我们就组织了10名科学家和魔术师去参加论证会。
去之前，我先请中科院化学所所长吹制了几个形状特异的玻璃瓶，里面装有几粒药丸，附上防伪标记，以防止他复制或掉包。到现场后，我们请张宝胜表演他将药丸抖出瓶外的特异功能。表演从上午8点半开始，结果到了中午也没成功。张宝胜推说是现场气氛不好，影响功力发挥。其实这样的样品，完全可以由他带回家去，无论何时何地，只要能将药丸抖出，即算成功。但是，他都没有接过样品。
后又改为表演耳朵识字。我当场写了一个字条，装入一个信封，并于封口处签满我的名字，交由张宝胜识别。张装模作样运功后，说要到场外培养功力，将信封交给会议主持人后离去。为防张宝胜掉包，我紧紧地盯着他的手，没有发现可疑现象。这时，随我们去的魔术师，请主持人看一看手中的信封是否还是我亲手签名的那个信封，主持人打开一看，却不是我签名的信封，真信封果然已被张宝胜掉包，带出场外拆阅。张宝胜的特异功能就这样被我们的魔术师破解了。事实证明，他的所谓特异功能不过是魔术骗局罢了，我们一般人看不出，魔术师一眼就能识破。这次的验证会也以张宝胜的失败而告终。
科技界反伪有重任
记者：您认为要彻底清除“法轮功”和其它邪说的恶毒影响，全社会特别是科学界应做些什么?
何祚庥：要消除“法轮功”等其它邪教的流毒和影响，首先要消除“法轮功”能够迅速产生泛滥的土壤。“法轮功”是前一时期掀起的中国“气功热”、“特异功能热”、“新的造神热”共同作用之下产生的东西。对这一点，我们必须有一个清醒的认识。否则，消除了一个“法轮功”，还会出现一个别的什么功；消除了一个李洪志，还会有一个新的“神人”出现。这是我觉得需要关注的第一件事情。
第二件需要关注的事情，是对“法轮功”的批判还没有在理论上打好彻底的胜仗。现在，在国外，在因特网上，出现了一个“法轮功”的弟子上书党中央的“万言书”，提出一大堆所谓的科学证据，我建议中国科技界人士，仔细地读一读，认真地研究一下这个“万言书”，对他的所谓科学证据，进行严肃的、科学的剖析。一切的科学证据，都只会通向唯物主义，通向无神论，绝对不可能为“有神论”提供论据，更不可能为李洪志这样一个新的“神”提供什么“科学论据”。这件事情还需继续做。
采访结束时，何老向记者表示，他还要继续揭露批判“法轮功”等伪气功、伪科学的本质和危害，让更多的人提高认识。记者还得知，已有多家国家部委机关邀请何老前去做报告。我们相信，在以江泽民同志为首的党中央领导下，这场与“法轮功”的斗争一定能取得胜利，全国人民建设有中国特色的社会主义事业的脚步，是任何人也阻挡不了的。
(《中国信息报》1999年8月20日)
An interview with He Zuoxiu: How he exposes and fights against Falun Gong
Knowing Falun Gong at a book stall
Journalist: Mr. He, how did you get to know Falun Gong?
He Zuoxiu: On November 26, 1996, I happened to find at a book stall the book "Zhuan Falun" by Li Hongzhi, which was published by China Radio and TV Publishing House. I wondered why China Radio and TV Publishing House, an important national press, published a book to advocate Buddhism. Then I took it for granted that the book was only to advocate Buddhism. However, a close reading of the book surprised me a lot because it was making use of and even debasing Buddhism so as to spread superstitious ideas. I thought Li Hongzhi and his Falun Gong should be given due attention.
Later I read more materials related to this respect. The most impressive was one article by Mr. Chen Xingqiao from the Buddhist Association of China to expose Falun Gong. Mr. Chen attacked Falun Gong from the perspective of Buddhism and held that Falun Gong was only taking advantage of Buddhism and it was in fact a cult. Since scholars from Buddhism have thought Falun Gong as cult more than superstition, I thought we should really be on alert against Falun Gong.
Journalist: What urged you to fight against Falun Gong?
He Zuoxiu: Some tragedies caused by Falun gong occurred around me. So I thought it was high time to expose Falun Gong. At that time Falun Gong spread very fast. Even some postgraduates in our institution began to practice Falun Gong. One postgraduate was so infatuated with Falun Gong that he developed schizophrenia. He neither ate nor spoke all day long, and he even forced himself to stay awake the whole day. Leaders of our institution were informed of this situation and took this postgraduate to psychopathic hospital very soon. This incident showed clearly that Falun Gong would lead practitioner to a psychopath and people should be warned of this point. So when I was interviewed by the program "Beijing Express" at Beijing TV Station, I remarked, "Practitioners of Qigong should have a clear idea of the functions of Qigong. People can benefit from Qigong to some degree. But some Qigong may lead people to going into extremes, such as Falun Gong. So practitioners should be on alert." To my surprise, after the broadcasting of this interview, Beijing TV Station was beleaguered by some practitioners of Falun Gong. I received a lot of letters that expressed the similar voice to defend Falun Gong. Most of the letters were from Shenyang, which explained that the movement was specially organized. Falun Gong practitioners in our institution and China Science Academy came to me and argued with me about Falun Gong. Then I really wondered why Falun Gong launched movements of such a large scale to respond to my criticism. Almost at the same period, Falun Gong followers have besieged many newspaper offices and other media, which made a great stir in the society. At that time most of the news agencies besieged were forced to apologize, and only a few media withstood the pressure.
One article starting a storm
Journalist: After you criticized Falun Gong openly, Falun Gong arranged many practitioners to beleaguer Beijing TV Station, wrote letters to you and debated with you. Then did you feel endangered?
He Zuoxiu: I was not scared by the threats and debates from Falun Gong for I sided with truth. So whenever I got the chance I would continue to expose Falun Gong in the media. For example, I criticized Falun Gong respectively at "The Trend of Science and Technology" and a journal in Xi'an, and they were later besieged by Falun Gong. As for me, I held onto the truth and expressed my criticism frankly. Therefore, I published an article to expose and attack Falun Gong at "Science Review for Juvenile".
Journalist: it is just this article at "Science Review for Juvenile" that angered Falun Gong and they began to beleaguer Tianjin Normal University on a large scale and then even desperately launched their besiegement of Zhongnanhai, the highest leading department of the Party and the country. Could you tell me how you wrote the article and what you have mentioned in it?
He Zuoxiu: In early 1999, I was invited to write an article for juvenile by "Science Review for Juvenile" published by Tianjin Normal University. So I wrote the article entitled "I don't support juveniles to practice Qigong" because I thought the juveniles should be warned against the dangers of some Qigong. Since I realized clearly what Falun Gong really was, I criticized Falun Gong for two times. First I held that Falun Gong was to spread superstitious ideas and advocate the so-called "law of primordial spirit". Second I warned that Falun Gong might make practitioners go into extremes. Here I took the example of that graduate in my institution who went into extremes because of Falun Gong.
In fact, when I was using this example of the postgraduate in our institution at Beijing TV Station, some Falun Gong followers came to debate with me, claiming that postgraduate went into extremes because of the practice of other Qigong instead of Falun Gong. But they couldn't tell me the real name of other Qigong. So what they claimed was just chicanery, for all of us knew clearly that that postgraduate practiced Falun Gong. At that time I said to them, "Why do you lie? That postgraduate suffered schizophrenia due to Falun Gong. Why do you blame other Qigong?" They responded, "Mr. He, that postgraduate went into extremes because he performed wrong postures." I challenged, "I practice Taiji Boxing. I know that people may have a variety of postures in performing Taiji Boxing. If people would go into extremes just because they have used wrong postures when practicing Falun Gong, that only means Falun Gong is too dangerous." Our debate ended in vain. In fact, I have not totally realized the risk of Falun Gong at that time. Now it is clear that Falun Gong is more dangerous than we have expected.
Therefore, in the article published at "Science Review for Juvenile", I specially mentioned that the very postgraduate recovered from schizophrenia and went on with practicing Falun Gong and went into extremes for the second time. He kept murmuring "Master Li Hongzhi is continuously caring for me" all day long, which proved more certainly that this postgraduate went into extremes because of Falun Gong. Those Falun Gong practitioners intended to deny the fact and felt greatly annoyed at my article. So they beleaguered Tianjin Normal University and "Science Review for Juvenile". At the same time, in order to fool more Falun Gong practitioners, they didn't allow the practitioners to read my article. Their excuse was that article was very long and wholly against Falun Gong. In fact, my article was very short with less than 1000 words and Falun Gong was only mentioned for two times. So they fooled and instigated some practitioners to beleaguer Tianjin Normal University.
Later they gathered and protested in front of Zhongnanhai and put forward three requests. First they wanted to be declared as a legal organization. Second they asked "Science Review for Juvenile" to apologize to them. Third they urged to punish He Zuoxiu severely. It seemed that they targeted He Zuoxiu's article. In fact they just made use of my article to elaborate their own intentions, which were to challenge our Party and our Central Government. Now they have begun to attack Communist Party of China, even President Jiang and Premier Zhu. It goes clearly that their besiegement of Zhongnanhai was premeditated, organized and planned action. The chief instigator is none other but Li Hongzhi.
Braving the besiegement and debates
Journalist: Just as you said, Falun Gong followers have debated with you for many times. How did you cope with them?
He Zuoxiu: While I was criticizing Falun Gong, they encouraged some practitioners to debate with me. For example, when they were beleaguering "Science Review for Juvenile" in Tianjin, some Falun Gong practitioners came to my home to debate with me. I had to take up the gauntlet; otherwise they would think truth sided with them. Of course, I would not debate blindly; instead I have taken up some strategies. First, I would ask whether they were representatives of Falun Gong. But no one dared to admit his or her identity of Falun Gong representatives. Then I would ask them why they came to debate with me. I welcomed any kind of debate if they disagreed with me or stood for Falun Gong. I even welcomed Li Hongzhi to debate with me personally. Then one of them claimed to be on behalf of Falun Gong. I required him to show me the letter of introduction. He couldn't show me anything. Then I continued I would not debate with him since he could not prove him to be the representative of Falun Gong.
The second strategy was to recriminate them just with their own ideas. I would say you practice Falun Gong, which believes in truth, compassion and forbearance while I am a member of Communist Party, which grasps well how to fight and how to unite. You talk so loud about forbearance. But what you have done never lived up to the forbearance. I just wrote a short article to show my disagreement with you. But you have started such a stir and dragged so many people to beleaguer or debate. Where was your forbearance? In my opinion, you were much more aggressive than me. Formerly I had thought Falun Gong might have some merits. Now what you were doing was not in consistent with what you were advocating. Of course I will fight against you. I have read the Bible and Christ has taught us that tolerance means "whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Now I have only given you some criticism, you rushed to my home to debate. Are you exemplifying your tolerance? Your actions have impressed me really badly.
Then I came to the word "truth". At that time I have learned from Mr. Chen Xingqiao's article that Li Hongzhi had changed his birth date. I asked them, "Li Hongzhi's birthday is July 7. Why did he change it into May 13? Can it be considered as truth?" At that time many of them remained in dark about this news.
I finally came to "compassion". Falun Gong claims that practitioners needn't take any medicine even if they fall ill. Consequently many patients died. Many reports of this kind have appeared on the newspapers. Can this be regarded as "compassion"?
So I just made use of their slogans to debate with them. Li Hongzhi has written in his books that truth, compassion and forearance are the most important laws in the universe. I argued, "You can disagree to my ideas. But why don't you obey what Li Hongzhi has preached to you?"
Standing behind the locked anti-theft door, I kept debating with them. If they really dared to prize my anti-theft door, I would dial 110 and report to the police. But to tell the truth, they did not destroy my door.
Li Hongzhi bragging a lot to fool people
Journalist: Falun Gong has exerted wide and execrable effects on the society and thousands of people have been fooled. Mr. He, do you think what the real reasons are?
He Zuoxiu: Falun Gong began to spread from 1989. From 1992 to 1999, it spread to many places of China. Then it claimed to have a hundred million practitioners. In fact the true number is about 2 millions. Even this number is surprising. In addition, about one third of the practitioners are members of Communist Party. Our Party was founded in 1921 and launched a large revolution in 1927. Members of our Party at that time were far less than the number of Falun Gong followers. Now our country is under the leadership of Communist Party. But such cults as Falun Gong have developed at an amazingly high speed. This situation really deserves our full attention.
In my opinion, Falun Gong can develop so fast and attract such a large number of followers mainly for two reasons.
First, Qigong has enjoyed broad social basis and a long history in China. In recent years Qigong fevers have occurred one after another and people have been obsessed with creating new living gods. All provide many chances for the development of Falun Gong. Especially, Li Hongzhi is good at bragging to fool people. He boasted so much that even I was once cheated. He bragged that Falun Gong practitioners have amounted to 60 millions. I thought the real number would be 20 millions if what was exaggerated was left out. 20 millions is also an amazing number. But in fact the real number is only 2 millions. So Li Hongzhi's exaggerations are beyond our imagination.
Second, Li Hongzhi is good at taking advantage of others' reputation or influence to do his favor and promote Falun Gong as well. He first took advantage of Buddhism and Sakyamuni. He changed his birth date to claim himself to be the reincarnation of Sakyamuni and be far more powerful than Sakyamuni. Then he took advantage of our Party's authority and President Jiang's prestige among the masses. He boasted that President Jiang asked him to postpone the date of earth explosion. In this way he fooled some people into worshiping him and Falun Gong. Third he used some modern scientific terms to cheat people in the name of science.
Journalist: Mr. He, as a scientist, how can you determine Falun Gong to be anti-scientific and false? In other words, how should we differentiate pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience?
He Zuoxiu: It is not an easy job to differentiate pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience. It involves a series of problems such as how to understand the spirit of science and master scientific methods. Of course, anyone who claims they can control the timetable of earth explosion or claim they can solve any problems must be liars. For example, Falun Gong advocates that the whole family would benefit a lot if one person practices Falun Gong; if one is performing Falun Gong, the other around would be healthy. Clearly such statements are exaggerations or nonsense. One statistic shows that by now 743 persons have died because of practicing Falun Gong.
Another case in point is Yan Xin. He bragged that he could send out magical powers in Guangzhou to change the chemical compositions of the substance in tubes in the lab of Tsinghua University. He also boasted that it was him who performed Qigong to have put out the forest fire in Daxinganling. All these are dirty lies. There are also some people who claim to have supernatural powers such as predicting whether the satellite could be launched successfully or not. This is also pseudoscience and a kind of witchcraft.
New Theism in modern times is featured by "a living god" seemingly supported by modern scientific term. In traditional religions, people worship the dead gods and understand the religious ideas according to classical sutra or books. In the New Theism, the "living gods" can issue instructions, update directions and organize movements based on different situations. They are ready to provoke turmoil and therefore they are more deceptive and more destructive. In addition, New Theism has coined "law of eternal soul" and "law of primordial spirit" to destroy modern science.
So it goes without saying that all pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience are against science and civilization and should be thoroughly exposed and attacked.
It depends on all of us to fight against pseudoscience and pseudo-Qigong
Journalist: In fact, many people have realized Falun Gong and other kinds of Qigong are only pseudoscience or pseudo-Qigong. However, only a few bravely stand out to expose and attack them. You are the most typical fighter against pseudoscience and pseudo-Qigong.
He Zuoxiu: You really do me a big favor. In fact, there are many people who frankly expose Falun Gong and other kinds of pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience. It is said that advocators of pseudo-Qigong once called on all Qigong masters to jointly give off powers toward four persons: Yu Guangyuan, Sima Nan, Guo Zhengyi and He Zuoxiu. In their eyes, we four are the so-called "four evil persons". In the fight against pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience, the other three scientists have done a lot of work. I have given my due contribution, that is, I am familiar with natural science, so I can expose them more thoroughly from the perspective of natural science and hence my ideas are easily accepted by the public.
Mr. Yu Guangyuan is the first to openly expose pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience. Mr. Sima Nan once involved himself in some Qigong organizations and got to know much inside information. So he really gave a heavy blow to pseudo-Qigong. Professor Guo Zhengyi used to work in Beijing University and then became the leader of China Science Popularization Institution. He has constantly fought against superstitious ideas for many years. Here I will tell you an interesting story about Guo Zhengyi.
Professor Guo had a telephone equipped at home. The Telephone Bureau offered him a special number whose last four digits were 4444. Why is the number special? The explanation made by the Telephone Bureau was that no one wants this number; you are a fighter against pseudoscience, so you will accept it. Professor Guo responded, "Well, I have the number. I never believe in these kinds of superstitious ideas. Will this number really lead me to death? Nonsense! In fact, 4 in music book is read as 'fa', having the similar sound to Chinese character '发', meaning 'prosperity' in English. Then this number may make me more and more prosperous. Besides, this number is very easy to remember."
Next I will make you know more people of this kind
Professor Gong Yuzhi is the vice president of Party School of the Central Committee of CPC. He is a famous Marxist scholar and economist. He is also an expert in studying Deng Xiaoping Theories. He has written many books to expose and attack pseudoscience from the perspective of Marxism. This is of great significance. Formerly we have only focused on the exposure of pseudoscience from the perspective of natural science. Now Professor Gong has pointed out that modern pseudoscience is totally against Marxist thoughts and principles. Therefore, all the Marxists should be on great alert against pseudoscience.
Professor Zhang Honglin is the director of Qigong researching department at China Traditional Medicine Researching Institution. He is an expert in Chinese Qigong. Based on his rich knowledge of the history and methods of Qigong, he has written many books to expose pseudo-Qigong. He has also devised many specific and effective experiments to reveal the tricks of pseudo-Qigong. According to his experiments, with people's psychological suggestions intercepted, all the so-called "exterior powers" will fail to work magically as expected. That is to say, the magical effects of "exterior powers" are made by people's psychological suggestions. In fact, psychological suggestions can not produce effects at all. With clear thoughts and strong mind, people will not be easily influenced by psychological suggestions.
Doctor Zhang Tongling is a famous psychiatrist. He has studied many cases of patients who went into extremes because of practicing Qigong. Based on his rich clinical experience, he has published books to warn people of the potential dangers.
Professor Li Liyan has also written many books to criticize Ke Yunlu, a crazy supporter of pseudo-Qigong. In addition, Doctor Li Shengxian has been working in the countryside for many years. He has made systematic surveys on how witch doctors fool people and how modern witches spread in name of Qigong. His surveys are great contributions to the exposure of pseudo-Qigong.
Zhuang Fenggan is a widely respected academician. He is the first to expose the so-called "greatest predictor" Chen Linfeng. Rumors went that Chen Linfeng was awarded 200,000 Yuan by China Spaceflight Ministry because he had successfully predicted the smooth launching of the satellites. Zhuang Fenggan has made careful investigation and found out that Chen Linfeng was just a great liar. Chen Linfeng was awarded by the so-called "World Chinese Association" in which Chen Linfeng was just the deputy chief director. That means Chen Linfeng was awarded by himself so as to promote himself.
There are also many other persons who have made a lot of work to expose and attack pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience, such as Zhang Xiaoxian, president of Tsinghua University, Meng Dongming at Workers Daily and Zhu Haiyan.
A joint and strategic fight against Zhang Baosheng
Journalist: Would you share with our readers your experience in exposing other pseudo-Qigong or pseudoscience?
He Zuoxiu: Well, I will first tell how we have destroyed the myth "water into oil", which was the "invention" by Wang Hongcheng, a liar in the field of science. On January 28, 1993, a famous national newspaper issued a piece of front-page news that the fifth greatest invention of China was to change water into oil. At that time, the eighth Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference was being held. Delegates in the circle of science and technology read the news and thought it absurd and deceptive. So I was urged to write an article to expose the trick.
I first collected all the newspapers which have published this news. A close reading revealed that different newspapers provided different percentages of oil and water. Based on this finding I wrote an analytical and critical article and sent it to three important national newspapers. However, several weeks went by, but my article was not published. Then I sent it to another newspaper featured by science and technology, but it failed to be published either.
In 1994, the Party Central Committee and State Council jointly issued "Some Suggestions on How to Reinforce the Popularization of Science". Song Jian, then chief director of National Science Committee, held a conference to discuss how to carry out the scientific popularization work. In the conference Song Jian called on the scientists to write books or articles to spread science and attack pseudoscience. Informed of the fate of my article to expose the trick of water to oil, he required Science and Technology Daily to publish my article. Later more articles have been published at different newspapers to expose and attack the "invention" of changing water to oil.
Supports of this "invention" have invited me to the northeast for several times to watch their experiments. I responded that since they believed their invention was scientific and universal, why not come to Beijing to make their experiments. They were not confident, so they dared not to experiment in Beijing. Their invention collapsed of itself.
Wang Hongcheng's swindle about "water to oil" has been thoroughly debunked not long before.
Next I will tell you how we have defeated Zhang Baosheng, the so-called first superman of China. Zhang Baosheng claimed that he enjoyed many supernatural powers, such as shaking out the pills from the bottle with his consciousness, identifying Chinese characters with his ears. Many scientists together with me held much suspicion toward his powers. Later we found an opportunity to testify Zhang Baosheng's supernatural powers. So we invited 10 scientists and magicians to attend the demonstrating meeting.
Before I went to the meeting, I have asked the director of Chemical Department at China Science Academy to make several glass bottles of special shapes. In the bottles were some pills attached with specific marks so as to prevent him from duplicating or stealthily substituting. In the meeting, we first requested Zhang Baosheng to use his idiodynamic ability to shake the pills out of the bottle. His performance started from 8 o'clock in the morning, but he failed till noon. Zheng Baosheng complained that the atmosphere there was not suitable for him to perform properly. Then we suggested that he take the bottle home to have a try. No matter when or where he could shake the pills out of the bottle, we would believe in his supernatural abilities. But he refused to take away the bottle.
Then we asked him to perform how to identify Chinese characters with his ears. I wrote some words on a piece of paper and put it into an envelope. I sealed the envelope with my own signature. Zhang Baosheng held the envelope and pretended to give out powers toward it. Then he returned the envelope to the host and said he should go outside to develop more powers. In order to prevent him from stealthily substituting the envelope, I gazed at his hands, but found no suspicious signs. Then one magician asked the host to examine whether the envelop was still the very one with my signature. To our surprise the envelope has already been substituted. Thus Zhang Baosheng's supernatural powers were exposed thoroughly. It turned out that he was just playing a conjuring swindle. We would be easily fooled, but skillful magicians could see through it from the first sight. So Zhang Baosheng was defeated totally in this demonstrating meeting.
Scientific and technological circles should fight against pseudoscience responsibly
Journalist: In order to eliminate thoroughly the bad effects made by Falun Gong and other fallacies, what measures should be taken in the society, especially scientific and technological circles?
He Zuoxiu: To eradicate the baneful influences of Falun Gong and other cults, we should first get rid of the bases on which Falun Gong can develop speedily. The bases involve people's blind fevers for Qigong, supernatural powers and the creation of living gods, which have been popular for some time in China. We must get to know the roots clearly. Otherwise, even if Falun Gong has been banned, another new cult would come up; even if Li Hongzhi has been exposed and attacked, another new "god" would occur.
Secondly, we should realize that we haven't thoroughly defeated Falun Gong theoretically. At present, on the Internet overseas appears a so-called "expostulation letter" by a Falun Gong practitioner to the Party Central Committee. This expostulation letter has put forward many so-called scientific evidences to defend Falun Gong and demanded Chinese scientific and technological circles read closely and make serious and scientific analysis. In fact, all the scientific evidences will only lead to materialism and atheism. They will not provide any service for theism and such "living gods" as Li Hongzhi. So we should do more to attack Falun Gong.
At the ending of the interview, Mr. He told the journalist that he would go on with his exposure of and fight against Falun Gong and other pseudo-Qigong or pseudoscience. He will continuously reveal to the public the baneful influences of pseudo-Qigong or pseudoscience. The journalist has been informed that many national departments have invited Mr. He to make reports. We firmly believe that under the leadership of the Party Central Committee, we will surely succeed in the battle against Falun Gong. Anyone cannot hold up Chinese people stepping toward socialism with Chinese characteristics.
(China Information Newspaper, August 20, 1999)